“…not to see women as an object to just get released in or as a mother in the kitchen or an innocent sister who…”
Zirzamin: If you would want to introduce Shahin Najafi, what would you say about him?
Shahin: He is a sad and cheerful poet who would probably give a repulsive first impression of himself but once you get to know him and become his friend he would not drop the ball and let you down. He cannot say too much about himself. As Sheikh Abou Saied said: “Be the one they talk about, not you talking about yourself.”
Zirzamin: What are you doing these days?
Shahin: I either work, read books, watch movies, write (music), listen to music or respond to emails. And I’m busy with putting my rock-blues works together. Because of this, I dedicate some time messing with my guitar.
Zirzamin: Can you tell little about Tapesh-2012?
Shahin: Tapesh-2012 is actually an Iranian-German band with a multi-national musicians and singers coming from different countries. The leader is Omid PourYousofi, a music instructor in Bochum, Germany and his brother Amin playing on percussion, on guitar, and on bass. Armin Mostaed used to play with Arian Band and now plays bass with us. Michael from Poland plays piano and Tony from the United States sings. And few other musicians who play saxophone, drums, and other instruments. Also Vivienne from Germany who raps in German. This band is like an open project that whoever that has the ability can cooperate with it. At the same time they can do their own solo thing.
Zirzamin: Does Tapesh-2012 make your beats? Do you have any hand in making them?
Shahin: The beats are made by Tapesh-2012. But the guys are working as a team while the final decision is made by Omid PorYousofi as he is more familiar with the Iranian dimensions (and sounds). And by the end the music arrangement and production is done by Omid and Michael. I only give my opinion. But sometimes it is so good that one can’t say anything.
Zirzamin: In your works and lyrics there are objection against the existence of inequalities (i.e. injustice) of women in Iran. In your opinion, what would the solution to stop these inequalities and discriminations be? And what would the responsibility of Iranians be in this matter?
Shahin: This is a big discussion and I don’t think here is the right place (for it). But the solution starts from a society’s individual way of thinking of the shape of the governance, the way the society is governed, laws are enforced and the ways kids are being educated in the schools and at home. Unfortunately we have lots of work to do (in this regard).
I think by increasing the education level of society and individuals’ knowledge level, it is possible to reach a positive point. Regardless of what, when no-one is in its right position, you cannot make anyone accountable for anything. It has to become each individual’s understanding. It means each person should start with having such awareness about his mother, sister, and partner.
Zirzamin: In your opinion, what responsibility do the musicians, especially rappers, have in developing the Iranian artistic culture?
Shahin: Art in my view is the scream of joy, love, and togetherness from a person’s point of view in a collective society. But at the same time, it’s the anger of a human against his existence in this world and its undeniable bad. The duty of an artist is to capture this in a time and in a place for history. And during the course of this, the works that are more complete and developed will remain alive. This has nothing to do with its style, form or shape. You only need to be willing to shoulder human being’s nostalgic pain. But the question what responsibility an artist has is related to his history. It’s not really nice to prescribe anything on it and art doesn’t really understand anything but the generics. Because of this it would be really funny if I would to tell about struggles and the words of the 50s.
Zirzamin: In your opinion, where is hip hop heading in Iran?
Shahin: Persian rap is sensitive, fragile, and vast but it’s shallow. Persian rap could get creative and distance itself from repetitive childish messages. It could become serious and it has a few times proved being capable of doing it as well. But it’s hard to tell where it would end up. It depends on what kind of works the artists will create. Nevertheless, these kids (in Iran) are working under hard conditions and with all the limitation and censorship that exists, being able to continue the works is a little bit worrisome. This is as you are forced to rap to 6/8 beats (Persian pop rap) and such under-developed animal (i.e. Persian pop rap) is not good for anything except for laughter. But I believe that Persian rap could do something.
Zirzamin: Do you use rap as a way of communication or are you trying to bring something out of its artistic elements?
Shahin: These two are going parallel in a creation. But if you by artistic experimentation mean to pay the price of losing some of your audience, yes, then I might be doing such a thing.
Zirzamin: What features must the lyrics of a rap song have?
Shahin: For me the most important features of rap are its visual and narrative characteristics in its lyrics. We have these features in our “Naghaali” (traditional story-telling) too. And because of this, rap in my opinion is not so close to melodical music but rather close to verbal music. But experience has shown that creativity in the beats, the harmony, and the melody can make rap richer from a musicality point of view. But the ultimate purpose of rap is (the use of) its words and by using artistic methods of poetry such as metaphor, allusion, homogeneity, ambiguity, and etc. And also the originality of the singer’s vocal part is the final power of a piece that helps to improve its quality.
Zirzamin: Based on our statistic, Germany hosts the third largest number of readers of Zirzamin after the US and Sweden. They also spend substantial time on our site reading the different material found at Zirzamin. In this regards how has your work been met in Germany?
Shahin: Regardless of what, there is a level of competitions between people who rap here and most of the bands are gangs. Tapesh 2012 and I are trying not to enter those gangs’ boundaries. Our audiences are usually Germans with heredity and when it comes to Iranians, I don’t think that those who are internet savvy wouldn’t know us. We, with our heavy self-censorship, have found our own audience from students to youth, politicians, artists, and intelligent people. We have now got the role of the wild ones in here and wherever there is a show that no one dares to perform, they call us. We, without any prejudgment, work with almost everyone.
Zirzamin: What reactions and feedbacks you received after releasing “Maa Mard Nistim” [We Are Not Men] and “Harf-e Zan” [Woman’s Word]?
Shahin: Many different feedbacks were given and the reactions (from people) varied. It was very important for me personally to hear the opinion of those people who listened to the “Maa Mard Nistim”. This poem which was transformed to a rap song was on behalf of the great number of Iranian women that I shouted their words. Even though I wrote it very personal, but I saw how this epidemic pain had many customers. Believe me; I was not happy in the very beginning. I cried many times because of the messages that were sent to me. (They were) from Iranian girls, women, and mothers and young adults who had been exposed to such catastrophic experiences at homes, alleys and streets (i.e. outside of homes). Of course we had some people who were against it and considered this piece as anti-male, and they complained about it in an Iranian style. And there were some constructive criticisms as well.
With the song “Harf-e Zan”, we published our manifest on the equality of women’s right. That piece was somehow a token of respect to all women and those who are working for women’s right in Iran and around the world.
Zirzamin: Can you give us some examples on the type of critics you received on the “Maa Mard Nistim”?
Shahin: Part of critics was about those who believed in a level of nationalism in a piece. I have to mention here again that I am a world citizen and I do not adapt any sense of nationalism or the inferioty of a race against another. But I don’t deny that I love that country (i.e. Iran), with all its difficulties and shortages, for all the things I learned in there. I am from there and I cannot forget that. Some people said that this piece has an anti-Arab feeling that I don’t think the problem with Persian Gulf or the historic invasion of Iran by the Arabs has anything to do with today’s Arabs. That’s history. Arabs had the same negative impact on us that we had on Indians or other minorities in Iran. Some were also disappointed because I mentioned a few artists’ name, to which no offence has been made in the lyrics, but I have my own opinion about this.
Zirzamin: In a male dominated society like Iran, where more than 60% of its college students are women, do you think there would be a time when women’s right will be equal and respected?
Shahin: As I mentioned earlier, we need a cultural revolution. Look, everything around us is about cursing or offending women. From our movies to the nonsense things that Seda-o Sima [1] produces, to our music and unfortunately more in rap. I believe in self-control. From artists to the ordinary people must come to this understanding not to see women as an object to just get released in or as a mother in the kitchen or an innocent sister who because of her fear has to hide from her father or brother.
Our ritualistic culture, which is entangled with religion, needs to breath. We need to redefine many of our words in our language; a lot of words such as honor, purity, veil, manhood and a lot of principles which only end in rejections, honor killings and violence against women.
Fortunately, women in Iran are active and self-motivated and it only proves one thing. We, men, have to accept their requests even if it is hard for us. A solicitation of freedom, equal social rights, and the need to breathe in a society where women would not be limited by some stone-age regulations.
I am convinced that the situation of the Iranian women will change and this is not detached from Iranian cultural principles.
Zirzamin: Something that caught my attention is that some of the words on your songs are censored by beeps. Does it have any special reason?
Shahin: This self-censorship is unfortunately related to the immaturity of the ears and the benefit of these is that through these, the listener has to guess the words (i.e. engaging the listeners).
Zirzamin: One of the last works of yours is “Baamdaad”. Can you tell us little bit about it, please?
Shahin: I am a fan of Ahmad Shamloo. Actually after getting to know Shamloo’s poems I throw away everything I had written and started from scratch. I have never been good in the Iranian modern poetry. But what Saamloo did in his poetry, I could understand as a musician. But Shamloo’s life was not without any impact on me. He represents a personality who didn’t sell himself [2]. A poet who based on his own words was living in a glass house, I love his simplicity. The song was the least I could do.
Zirzamin: You and Tapesh 2012 had a performance in Bochum in Germany which was celebrated for the “18th of Tir” (8 th of July) [3]. How did that performance go?
Shahin: well, I had never sung in front of 8000 people. And that live without any playback. The guys rocked the place with their Persian, English, and German songs of Tapesh 2012. When the atmosphere was ready, I went and sang the “Maa Mard Nistim”. That was a sick performance which was perfectly performed. This is a big event for which 100s of bands register and only a few of them get selected and perform during 3 days [4] event.
Zirzamin: Do you have any performances or any plan of such that you would like to let our readers know?
Shahin: Our confirmed gig is on the 4th of March in Monster. And the guys are coordinating for some gigs in UK and Holland. And during 2009, there are some plans for US and Canada which will be announced later.
Zirzamin: As the last question, if you would like to mention your favorite book, which one would it be?
Shahin: It’s a difficult question. But I would like to mention a book that always gives me energy: “Human, All Too Human” by Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche [5].
Zirzamin: It’s interesting for me that you mentioned a book by Nietzsche. What makes you interested in his work?
Shahin: In fact, I am interested in pre-Socratic philosophy from which Nietzsche's thoughts also sources. Nietzsche is a linguist who brings findings of the origins of words and concepts as a method in philosophy and in fact he creates the basic elements of Absurd Philosophy, which in some ways is similar to Nihilism. It is a kind of happy-non-existentialism which reintroduces the sadness in Hellenism.
Basically Nietzsche's principles like human being but it will define the human in the most instinct and simplest possible way. My ideas regarding ultra-human is not that of “superman-istic” that some people talk about. For me individuality is in the ultimate humanity. Regardless of what, Nietzsche is loyal to philosophy, and doesn’t just tailor make an answer to people. Based on this, Nietzsche played a teacher’s roll for me. When I was only 17 years old, I learned from Nietzsche to have my own style, and this is not a simple lesson to forget.
Zirzamin: Shahin jaan, thanks a lot.
Shahin: Thank you.
[1] Sedaa o Sima's official site
[2] Referring to the current establishment.
[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_student_protests,_July_1999
